Public Media May Have The Blueprint For Local Media's Future

For years, broadcasters have searched for the next growth engine. But the answer might not be a new platform — it's a new mindset. 

On the latest episode of In the Vicinity, Tim Hanlon sits down with Christy Tanner, President and CEO, New York Public Radio, to talk about why the future belongs to media organizations that think beyond broadcast, embrace partnerships over competition, and build lasting audience relationships through podcasts, events, streaming, video, and community.

Listen to the full In the Vicinity podcast above or get it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Tim Hanlon: Welcome back. Hi everybody, how are you? My name is Tim Hanlon. I'm the founder and the CEO of the Vertere Group here in Chicago, and I'm your humble and congenial host this week and every week here In the Vicinity. It's our little weekly podcast that we like to do for you courtesy of our friends at TVREV, all things local media.

And we are just ecstatic to have as our guest this week Christy Tanner, who is the CEO, relatively newly installed, about six, seven months or so. Longtime media executive on lots of different things. The old TV Guide Digital, remember that? CBS. She helped get into the streaming world. Now she is the chief cook and bottle washer over at New York Public Radio.

And I saw a couple of days back a headline where WQXR FM in New York was one of the highest-rated stations in the New York metropolitan area this last quarter according to all the rating surveys and stuff. And lo and behold, that their share is the largest audience share that station has had in over 50 years and cements its dominance as the classical musical station, not only in New York, but also the United States because of its size and scale and ratings success.

And I had to remind myself that WQXR for the last number of years has been part of the New York Public Radio umbrella of assets. And lo and behold, I recognized and remembered that my pal Christy Tanner was there now. So I said perfect excuse. Let's call her up and talk about her sojourn into public media, how it's been going for the last six or seven months as she's begun her journey there, and maybe get a little insight into what local media is from a decidedly more public media landscape.

Obviously more focused on things like traditional radio properties and audio and that kind of stuff. But like a lot of modern media organizations, both commercial and non-commercial, those traditional boundaries are no longer considered boundaries anymore. WQXR obviously is available in various digital formats but the New York Public Radio also owns a bunch of other stuff.

They are the owners and progenitors of the WNYC Studios grouping there that puts out a ton of claimed and award-winning podcasts. For example, On the Media, perhaps one of the more favorite ones of mine The New Yorker Radio Hour Radio Lab, a bunch of others. They also own some physical presence in a place called The Greene Space down there in Lower Manhattan where they get very involved in events, right?

Which is another sort of evolution, if you will, of what used to be, a radio sort of oriented business. And ask anybody who publishes on Substack or Beehiiv or create, has created their own little media enterprises these days, and you'll certainly know that events are very much a part of the business model, right?

Getting people who are passionate about what you're talking about on your podcast or, expressing in your newsletter or whatever it is. God forbid, you could actually have folks who are like-minded meet you in person and have conversations, et cetera. New York Public Radio's, they've been ahead of all that kind of stuff.

They own the Gothamist which is an assemblage of newsletter oriented and digital properties and stuff, and a whole bunch of other assets. WNYC of course. How could I forget? That's the flagship station for NPR in New York City. But we're gonna talk with Christy about a bunch of things.

How local media plays out in New York these days. What it means to be a public media entity in and around New York, as well as the unique challenges that public media is going through generally. And frankly, some lessons that commercial local media can learn from some of the things that the folks at New York Public Radio have been doing under Christy's tutelage as well as the, what they have planned.

And I would argue you're gonna come out of this conversation a little bit smarter and maybe with some ideas to boot. Let's not waste any more time. Let's get right to our chat with Christy Tanner, the CEO of New York Public Radio. Please, as always, enjoy.

It has been a while since we last talked. And you are in a new position maybe not so new anymore, that I find fascinating given your background, which we'll get into. But maybe for our audience who doesn't know where you are or even who you are, perhaps a little background on on you and where you sit right now in a to me, a fascinating seat in local media in the New York Metro area.

Christy Tanner: Tim, it's great to see you. Six months ago I became the CEO and president of New York Public Radio, and that includes the iconic WNYC, which is the nation's largest public radio station, and WQXR, which is the number two classical station, as well as Gothamist. We are the yin and yang of both journalism and culture in New York, and- it's an incredible organization with so much talent in the building and on the air, and a third of our audience is coming from streaming 

Tim Hanlon: Yeah, that's amazing because not only streaming, but also probably it's, you're also not necessarily New York only.

You are certainly New York centric in, in, in the audiences that you serve. But you've mentioned a couple of brand names that are iconic across, because you get into podcasting and streaming and all that kind of stuff too. So it's almost like you're a, a super regional public media kind of entity that has,

Christy Tanner: This, this organization wrote the playbook on podcasting. Long before I arrived. We produce On the Media, The New Yorker Radio Hour, and Radiolab. Those are distributed to more than 700 radio stations around the country. They're on all podcast platforms. So more than a third of our audience comes from outside the New York DMA. 

Tim Hanlon: Which I find fascinating and I wanna put all this in perspective because number one, it's public media.

We'll get to that part in a minute. But the idea, frankly, of quote unquote radio, which is not what your organization is now, it certainly is a component of it, but that's the point. It's merely just a component of a more multimedia kind of approach, which I think is still a challenge to people who grew up in being quote unquote radio companies or in the television station space, right?

Where the boundaries aren't necessarily in the metro area, maybe it's the focus, but clearly opportunities for other audiences out there beyond. 

Christy Tanner: New York Public Radio is a center of excellence for global multi-platform content, period, end of story, already. So long before I walked in the door, this was an organization with local heart and global impact.

Tim Hanlon: And I guess the real challenge in operating that then is how do you stay true to your mission, and we'll talk about the public part of that in a minute, but the New York metropolitan area with the understanding, and frankly probably the opportunity, of growing audiences outside of the three, the the five boroughs and/or the metropolitan area?

Christy Tanner: I think the eyes of the world are always on New York one way or another because we are a financial capital, we are an arts and culture capital. We are now really a political capital as well, when you look at the reverberations across the political landscape in the US stemming from Mamdani's election.

And the political power that he wields within the Democratic Party. So every move that we make as New Yorkers is in some respect being scrutinized, and that gives us a natural audience outside of our DMA. I would look at it as an opportunity for us to fund our local mission, which is public service in New York City and in New Jersey.

Tim Hanlon: The great state of New Jersey, where I'm from.

Christy Tanner: Excuse me. The great state of New Jersey. But there's an opportunity here, Tim, for us to fund our mission with money from all over the world, and I think that's one of the really exciting things. We do a lot with live events.

We have an event space in our building called The Green Space that is well-known in New York City for hosting dialogues, conversations. We have the ability to live stream and broadcast from that space. And in fact, we partnered with C-SPAN on our interview with Mamdani after his first 100 days to make it a global event, and the opportunity to do that at scale is really exciting.

We do a series called Broadway on the Radio, and this really exemplifies the entrepreneurial spirit of this organization. The cast of Broadway shows come down to The Green Space at, on a midday, and they are interviewed by Alison Stewart, our iconic host of All Of It And they also perform. So it's a live event, it's also a, a radio show, and it's a, it's an on-demand video stream and an on-demand audio stream.

We now have a library of of a dozen of these, and we will do more. We have a whole editorial calendar of these events planned. And when you think about the possibilities for that, when you think about what a draw Broadway is, just as one example of the intensity of creativity in New York and its impact on the world, the opportunities for us as a media outlet are tremendous.

And I think you touched on this earlier. We are beyond the labels of your distribution platform, as you well know. It's all media. Whether it's for profit or nonprofit, whether it's terrestrial radio or streaming, we're all c- we're all competing for attention. And in my view, coalitions and collaborations are where it's at for the future.

Tim Hanlon: Yeah. And frankly, from a commercial perspective, which has been the predominance of the conversations we've had thus far in, in this silly little podcast effort i- this, it's actually emblematic, frankly, of all forms of media, b- commercial, non-commercial, whatever. You already have a, a a, a glaring head start in a bunch of these things.

You mentioned the green space. The events thing is a huge opportun- opportunistic thing for many, quote-unquote, "media brands," or things formerly known as media brands, right? Or newsletters. The Gothamist arguably could be put into that sort of bucket, which is all new it seems to people.

Newsletters have existed since the, the colonial days, right? But as businesses, as new forms of media, especially as the diaspora from big media companies disgorges so many talented writers and producers and auditors and all these things the ability to create these things.

And you guys are already doing some of this stuff. Streaming of quote-unquote, "radio," the newsletter on a regular basis kinda thing, the, the live events thing. It is one big bouillabaisse of opportunity, but also creativity that I'm gonna guess you probably haven't even just scratched the surface of what's possible given all the, the legacy pieces that you have available to you.

Christy Tanner: I would say it's all upside here, Tim. We have an incredible funding model that we can amplify and accelerate. So the membership model in public media is so powerful, and it really is one that commercial entities have been trying to crack for decades. And here we are in public media with the most robust membership model with a super low churn rate and such a high degree of engagement.

It's really been eye-opening for me in my six months in public media to understand the level of loyalty and stickiness that we have with our audience. And our our churn rate is about 5% in memberships, which is I think second only to certain religious groups in terms of its churn rate.

And one of the really fun things about this job in New York is, as we know, New Yorkers will come up and talk to you whether they know you or not. The love that people have for these, these brands and this organization is unlike any other media out- outlet or brand that I've ever been associated with in my career, and that ranges from the Associated Press to the Washington Post Company to TV Guide to CBS and 60 Minutes and Sunday Morning Some people love those brands.

Some people have questions. I've never seen anything like the response that I receive when I say I'm from New York Public Radio. 

Tim Hanlon: And it's what all this new forms of media just craves is that, that kind of engagement, right? As a podcaster in my off hours in the realm of sports and stuff I'm constantly bombarded by the Substacks of the world and the, the, the Beehives of the world who are putting all these pieces together so it's not just a podcast, but also a platform for a newsletter kinda thing and how you get people to engage and to be, part of the mix and to raise some funds and that kinda stuff.

You already have those benefits already in- in your camp and the- and you've got years of love, if you will, and brand recognition and quality behind you to do that. And that's the supreme irony. But again, also an amazing amount of tools that can allow you to double down and be successful.

Let me pivot, though, to the public part of that, right? We all know how challenging it has been to do, to raise funds and to continue the quality and excellence that is largely associated with public media properties around the country and New York is no different. How how do you balance that sort of sh- shake a- against the foundation of what used to be the process by f- how funds used to come into the organization and marry that with, I wouldn't call it a commercial dynamic, but you gotta raise money and make money, so to speak, to cover the costs, if you will, even as a nonprofit, right?

I gotta think that you've gotta embrace some level of commercial sensibility in terms of how you go to market with these things, no? 

Christy Tanner: Funders want to know that their money is being spent wisely, and so building confidence in our ability to deploy that capital efficiently and with integrity is part of the fabric of how this organization has approached fundraising for decades.

And I think it's a constant dialogue. You can't rest on your laurels. You have to tell the story of that integrity, and it comes through in the authenticity of the people who are talking about it. I don't think it's possible to be performative and be successful in the realm of raising money for public media.

So in my six months, I've had the opportunity to meet with some of our largest funders as well as some of our $10 a month members. And- What I would say the universal ask is that we share what we're doing to make sure that journalism and culture thrive in our democracy. So people really care about what we are doing to support our democratic process and institutions, and the integrity of our shared reality.

And I think that we really need to be assertive in claiming the contributions that we make to facts, truth, and trust. Because there are attacks on our journalistic institutions, on cities in general, on the media in general, and also on public media. But we are a part of a larger system of democratic integrity that is under attack, not only in the US, but globally.

So people wanna see that we're standing up for those democratic ideals, and I think it's important for us as an organization to talk about that, and to show how we're doing it And that is shown through our reporting, through how we present ourselves in the city of New York, whether we're showing up at Carnegie Hall live or the free Naumburg Bandshell concerts, or for a, a seminar on affordability and food insecurity in Bed-Stuy.

All things that we've got going on this month, and we have to show up with the same values and integrity in all of those places. How do you- And people will just call BS on it if we don't have it. 

Tim Hanlon: How do you translate, though, that authenticity and that trust and that quality to those who want to be, shall we say, commercially affiliated with, right?

So whether that's an ad on WQXR or some sponsorship of an event or, w- it's one thing to, quote-unquote, do a donation or underwriting, which is the classic understanding of public media. 

But how do you, And you've come from a commercial media background. How do you, I wanna say, commercialize the publicness of the media and the quality that you do, right?

'Cause you do have to pay the bills. You gotta cover costs and stuff, and you certainly don't wanna alienate your contributors, but you also do want to have some level of support from a more commercial perspective without dilution, of course. 

Christy Tanner: On the broadcast side, we have regulations that we adhere to strictly.

On the digital side, we have more ability to participate in monetization strategies that are not regulated in the same way. And I would go back to the statement that it's all media, Tim. The tactics are the same. The messaging may change and be targeted differently because we are public media, because we are non-profit, because we are independent.

But right now what I would say is what, having overseen digital at CBS News during the era when we discovered the level of fraud and fake accounts, active bot networks and disinformation that were rampant on platforms. The issues that we faced during those early years of discovery are the same issues that we face in non-profit media.

We have to fight back against these attacks on the integrity of our information systems. And the way that we do that is the basics of journalism, investigative reporting, public service, the utility of a, of a daily 24/7 news operation that we have, by supporting the diversity of culture in New York City and beyond, and deploying the tactics to amplify that work as widely as possible, to maximize our reach.

And in that area, we're building capability and agility, and we're acquiring the tools and the infrastructure and the funding support to accelerate our growth on all platforms. And I'm really excited about that potential. Because what that means is that our reporting will go further, have more impact, and that will lead to more opportunities to break stories, to connect with people, and to, to have that, that dialogue that people depend on public media for.

Tim Hanlon: Okay. Two more questions and then we'll let you go, because I appreciate all of this time. This has been illuminating for me on a bunch of different levels. But let me ask you, because of this sort of multimedia-ness, multi-platform-ness of all of the things that you are involved in now with this umbrella of great brands and historic yeah entities.

Wwhat about video and/or quote unquote television, right? And I don't wanna stir anything up per se, 'cause I do know public media has its own sort of unique f- fiefdoms and hydra-headedness, when it comes to national and local and all those kinds of things. But obviously, WNET in New York is the legacy PBS station in New York City.

Obviously they could and would do lots of video stuff. But is there but what's to stop them from maybe getting involved in local audio kinds of things, and maybe you guys getting involved in some video and that kind of stuff, be it partnership or otherwise, right? Is that possible? Is it just all part of the remit?

It's like it's still the mission, but just in different forms? 'Cause it sounds to me like there maybe aren't any boundaries, are there? 

Christy Tanner: We share the same values as public media institutions who care about New York. We both have the same remit. We're already producing a ton of video here day in and day out.

And so when we are reaching five and a half million people weekly on, on audio, terrestrial radio, digital platforms, and via video. They're consuming 12 million hours, which is incredible engagement, as you well know. And so we have worked for many years with WNET on a variety of projects, and we're actually working with them on a project right now.

So I think one of our objectives is to build more coalitions and partnerships, because we c- we can't do it all, and we don't have to do it all. We can amplify others' work. And for instance, we broadcast Carnegie Hall Live. That's a tried and true model. It's not WQXR Live, it's Carnegie Hall Live.

And I think what we can serve to do is build the reach for this other great work, whether it's incredible artists who are doing their work in New York or incredible journalism. And if our values are aligned, then we're happy to amplify others' work. 

Tim Hanlon: No, it makes sense. A video podcast, right? It easily is something that could be, if you will, syndicated or shared on with, quote-unquote, "traditional television entities," and vice versa.

Why can't those also be events that you guys produce. There's just so much overlay and overlap.

Christy Tanner: Yeah. We produce the New Yorker Radio Hour. So when David Remnick does a live interview with Hillary Clinton at the 92nd Street Y, and it's both a live show on WNYC, and it's a podcast, and it's on our YouTube channel, and it's on Condé Nast YouTube channels, that's the type of partnership that I think provides a great model for us, and what I would love to see accelerated throughout the...

I think we're at, we're done with the era of competition. We're in an era of coalition. This requires radical humility. And that doesn't always exist in journalism. I'd say it exists a little bit more in the arts. But I think bringing that spirit of collaboration is so important for the success of our democracy, honestly.

The attacks are coming from outside of the media, and we do need to work together to counter them.

Tim Hanlon: And my last question is one that kinda delves into your previous exploits and career. You're part of a long line of, shall we say, commercial media folks, veteran operators who have come into significant roles in local and/or national public media entities.

What's been the biggest sort of challenge in your migration, shall we say from the commercial dynamic of media to that of public? And is it, and I'm sure there's probably positives and negatives to that but there's clearly a shift in mindset when you come from a commercial background into the world of public.

Based on what you've just said, I can't think of much more. It can't be more than opportunistic, but I'm sure it has its challenges too. 

Christy Tanner: I've always been mission-driven. I started my career as a reporter for the Associated Press, which is a member cooperative, by the way, and a nonprofit.

So that really shaped me. You hear me talking about coalitions. Where did that, where does that come from? My comfort level is so high with that because I started my career in an organization that is based on cooperation, and it's a brilliant model that continues today, and I think we all can learn from it.

It's been around for, I think for, I think 200 years or something. Maybe 150. But that shows a lot of staying power, and it's evolved as well. And I think we have that in public media. I think I'm not into labels. I've been a newspaper reporter. I've worked in magazines, TV, and audio, and I don't really believe in labels.

I started my career as a photographer and I learned when I went to be a reporter and write that the reporters thought the photographers couldn't read, and I was able to tell the reporters the photographers thought the reporters were lazy. So these hierarchies in media have existed for a long time.

I'm just not a believer in any us versus them mentality as it relates to the mission, and that's to create a new era of democracy where journalism and creativity thrive, where facts unite us, and power answers to the people. 

Tim Hanlon: And I think that's why you're uniquely suited for this role. Personally I say that, but also objectively, right?

Because you see the exact opposite going on in commercial media now because it's all about things that are being, shall we say, wound down or trying to keep the lights on or managing decline, so to speak, right? Where a lot of these things were actually historically very siloed and there, it wasn't us versus them mentality.

There's the television side. There's the radio side. There's the, "I'm a print journalist," and those walls, while crumbling, are still very much entrenched, at least in people's mindsets, and it's too late, frankly, for that. If you're not already in a collaborative mindset, whatever part of media you live in, whether it's commercial or non-commercial or whatever, if you're not already preloaded or pre-wired for collaboration and mutual benefit it's gonna be very difficult to kinda survive in any form of media, both creation and/or distribution and the like.

Christy Tanner: From my perspective, local media is one of the most important foundations of our civic infrastructure. The ability to walk into a public meeting with a notebook, cover it, and let people know what happened there is really the only thing standing between us and oblivion. If there's nobody there to observe it- Your city council chairman in any town in the world is gonna give, the road contract to his brother, and your potholes will never be fixed.

But your city councilman's road will be paved. And I think what we are seeing nationwide and globally is a demand for accountability from power. And it's not only accountability from political power, it's from financial power, it's from technology power. And I would say that our shared culture is being celebrated in a way that has brought a lot of joy to people in the past few weeks.

Let's talk about the World Cup for a minute, which was so visible and present for us here in New York City every day on the streets. When you walk around and people watching the game at a bar or on the side of a truck or coming out of their houses at whatever it was, 11:00 p.m. when when the Knicks won the championship, just to celebrate in the streets with each other, how much joy that's giving people, and that's a joy coming from a shared culture.

So I think that's so important when you think about what brings our democracy together. It is those shared moments. And what we can do is bring those moments to more people. And it is everybody from somebody who doesn't speak the language through translation if they're a senior or a person with a disability who can't get out into the street to celebrate it, but you can feel it through the power of audio or through our live streaming or through video.

And I think that serving that mission is something that all local media does very well. I saw this at CBS when we launched our 12 owned and operated live streams. We saw that connection, and we saw the power that it had, and this shares those values at New York Public Radio.

Tim Hanlon: All right, my thanks to Christy. And I erred in the intro. I called her just the CEO of New York Public Radio. If that wasn't enough of a job, she's also the president. So she runs the whole shebang there. She's the president and CEO of New York Public Radio. And you can find out more about her and the organization at nypublicradio.org.

Some great lessons there, some great insights. And hopefully we can check back with her in a number of months and see where some of these newer initiatives are going, video included and perhaps some other areas of adventure, such as sports and the like. Let's see. We want to thank, of course, Jerry Payne, our audio excellence provider each and every week for putting our pieces together, and of course, the great team at TVREV.

We couldn't do this without the help of Mel Hourigan or Jason Damata, Mike Gasbara, JessiKa Walsten. You know who you are over there at TVREV. tvrev.com, including our little weekly column called Proximity, which we delve into more meaty issues in and around local media. Our thanks, of course, to Madhive for their sponsorship of this show, and to you for listening and commenting and weighing in with your thoughts, and many more great guests to come.

And thanks for listening. Tell your friends, and we'll see you soon.