Local TV stations produce hours of reporting every day, but much of its potential gets left on the cutting room floor or locked inside a scheduled newscast.
On this episode of In the Vicinity, Tim Hanlon talks with PiZetta Media Founder Mike VanZetta about what his PiZetta News Tracker reveals about local stations’ YouTube strategies. They explore why smaller markets can compete, how extended interviews and raw footage can find an audience, and why embracing performance data requires a shift in newsroom thinking.
Listen to the full In the Vicinity podcast above or get it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Tim Hanlon: Hey there. Welcome. You are In the Vicinity. My name is Tim Hanlon. I am the founder and the CEO of the Vertere Group here in Chicago, where we consultatively advise lots of different clients in the media and technology spaces. Small, large, and very much in between. I appreciate you finding us in all the podcast choices that you have out there.
And welcome to the extravaganza that is this little show. We focus on local media issues and conversations. And this week, a very intriguing thing has hit my radar, and I highly encourage you to check it out, and you're gonna learn more about it with our conversation with media consultant Mike VanZetta.
We're gonna talk about this new thing that he's got going. He's an industry vet in newsrooms and local television stations all across the country. But part of his consultative work these days is something called the PiZetta News Tracker, and that's pizettanewstracker.com, P-I-Z-E-T-T-A News Tracker, all one word, .com.
And I found this a couple of weeks back on my LinkedIn feeds, and I am addicted, as I think you might be once you check it out for the first time. You'll hear in our conversation the origin of this, but really what it does is attempt to lasso all of the YouTube expressions, if you will, of local television news out there, all the different pieces and newscasts and extra goodies and stuff that certain stations are truly taking advantage of, other stations may not be, and all the stuff in between of what people are trying to do with the king of all streaming channels out there.
It's fascinating stuff. It's just kinda getting going. But I think you'll learn in this conversation and by checking it out that this is a really helpful tool that will probably evolve into something much more robust even. But just to see all of this content from all the various stations and the groups and stuff, what's working, what's resonating, what's not where certain stations and groups are and maybe not, where they're missing the boat on all this stuff.
You're gonna hear more about that now coming up in our chat. Here's me and Mike VanZetta. Let's talk about the effort he's got going called the PiZetta News Tracker. I think you'll find this really fascinating, and please, as always, enjoy.
Why don't we start with a little bit of background about you because you actually have experience in and around the local media space, and then we can segue into kind of what you're doing now, and then we'll get to the heart of the matter, which is the thing I specifically reached out to you for. I'm fascinated by what you're putting together and perhaps creating data for going forward.
But first, some background.
Mike VanZetta: Yeah, so I started in TV in 2002, so I've been there for 24 years. My first job was in Terre Haute, Indiana at WTWO. It was Nexstar at the time. It was one of their first stations, actually. And then I just started as a PA and then eventually became a director there. And then I wanted to just keep moving up, so I went to Lynchburg, Virginia at WSET, and then I was there for 15 months.
And then I got an interview with WJLA News Channel 8 up in DC, and then I've been in DC ever since. With a few stops at Channel 9 and WUSA as well. And then I worked at Sinclair corporate. I started in TV more on the production end, so I got to see that and I got to see how editorial works side by side with it.
And then in 2008 I saw the business changing and I wanted to be prepared for it, so I wanted to combine broadcasting with digital, and I created my own degree at George Mason University. And I graduated there and I had all these skills now with the business side, editorial side, production side, digital side.
So I wanted to combine them, and I saw broadcasting wasn't quite there yet. And especially with my love of data, data is the thing that keeps it running. That shows you what path you should go on, so I was always adamant about listening to data, and I think that's one of the things that we'll probably get to a little bit later.
But newsrooms listening to data, I think that's a big key.
Tim Hanlon: All right, so let's step back for a second. So you're circa the aughts, right? You're still living ... and I have a cup of coffee of journalism background myself. I actually worked at the CBS News Bureau in Washington DC for a while, so I am very familiar with Broadcast Hill there and WUSA and WJLA across the way, and Rosslyn there and all that kind of stuff. So I'm very familiar with the DC sort of metro and stuff. So but you got there, right? You went from small market to small market to bigger market. You were, I say living the dream sort of somewhat flippantly, right? But especially for news and reporting and that kind of stuff and I certainly experienced this in the national bureaus at CBS. That was the unwritten rule, right?
You earn your chops and get your cuts at all the various local places and work your way up back to, quote-unquote, "the network." But you're in the aughts doing this. Describe to me the aha moment or moments when you started to recognize that maybe that pathway was changing and/or maybe not full of gold.
Mike VanZetta: Actually, my very first day in Terre Haute, Indiana, I was having lunch with some people and they're like, "Congrats on being here. The business is probably gonna change so much in the next few years." I'm like, "Oh." So it was already in my mind from day one. So I kept thinking “how is it gonna change?” With a small market, you're gonna do everything, so you don't think of things changing. That's just how it is. Learn as much as you can. I did commercial production.
That was great. I learned to do that, so I had all these new skills there. So I loved a small market for that reason. And then when you get closer to a larger market, then you're just doing one thing, and I didn't want to be just doing one thing because if I do just one thing, I'm not gonna be valuable in the future.
So I didn't. I wasn't a fan of that in the large market aspect. But that's why I wanted to keep learning and growing, because it's gonna change. I saw automation already in 2010 with directing and all different things to get, to be more of a lean newsroom in the large markets. You don't think of that as that.
So I saw that changing. And actually, when I was at Channel 9, the general manager talked about how ratings have been going down the past few years, and you gotta move to digital. So even in 2007, 2008, I already knew you gotta move to at least digital and get some content out there. So I already had that in my mindset, and just now always be ready to evolve, not stay in one spot.
And I think sometimes if you watch a newscast, it's the same format that it's been for a very long time.
Tim Hanlon: Okay, that's kind of the crux of why I asked that question, because as you're mentioning data and digital and all those kinds of things, and your awareness of that. In many sort of traditional media companies, I can relate seeing digital and seeing what's going on online and stuff, and you're, if you will, ensconced in a traditional media business model.
And in many respects, that can be a lonely journey because not everybody else around you sees it or frankly is financially incentivized to see that.
Mike VanZetta: Correct. It was one of the challenges when I'm talking to people in the newsroom talking about data. Newsrooms in the business their job is content creators.
They're supposed to create the content, and sales and advertising is selling it. And they're not touching each other. In a lot of markets, I had no idea who was in the sales team, so we never communicated. So now there's something going on if the salespeople on the business side are making decisions based on data and based on ratings and so I think the newsroom, they need to think a little bit more about that.
It's not saying you're gonna look for the lowest common denominator. The content you're creating is great, and you are heavily professionals. You're awesome. So the big thing is what can I do to help the company? And I think that's the big thing newsrooms need is to take a look at the data and see, okay, maybe this isn't working.
Especially YouTube, you're getting views based on the stories. So it's not just a newscast finding out what the whole half hour did. You could now look at individual stories and say "Okay, this is working. Maybe we should do more of this. This isn't working as much." So I think you need to think of the newsroom, not for the newsroom people to think more about the data.
Tim Hanlon: So let's talk about this. And this is the crux of why I reached out, because I've been fascinated with this News Tracker that you have put together. Can you describe the origin of it? This emanates out of your consulting firm. Tell us what it is, where people can find it, and what you're hoping to do with it, because I think once people see it, whether they come from the digital world or the traditional television, local TV world, or somewhere in between, they're gonna be just mesmerized by this data and arguably incentivized to maybe do something with it and because of it.
Mike VanZetta: Yes, I hope so. That is the big thing. I wanna help the industry as much as I can, so I'm always thinking of ideas. What can be a cost-effective way to help the industry? And with vibe coding now, life has become much easier creating ideas. I went to school for coding, but I wouldn't say I was the best coder.
So with vibe coding, where you're just doing prompts, you could really create something. So all these ideas I had before of tracking data, like there was a thing that Facebook had called CrowdTangle where you track Facebook pages. So I was really into that. I liked that a lot. So with vibe coding, I wanted to see if I could create something with YouTube using a YouTube API and just tracking local TV stations and how they're doing. Views. How much content they're putting out. How many subscribers they have. Any public data that's available.
The news companies have the real data, so I'm trying to create something where I could use what's available to help people. So that's why I wanted to create PiZetta News Tracker and, seeing people on LinkedIn read it and like it, and I'm like, "Okay, people do like data. I was right.” So getting that feeling is pretty good.
Tim Hanlon: Describe it for those who haven't seen it yet. And we'll have links to where it is, but pizettanewstracker.com is where the hub is, and we'll spell it out in our promos and stuff. But explain what it is. Tell us what it is first then I’ll drill holes in it.
Mike VanZetta: What it is is that I'm tracking all the YouTube handles of local TV, and I created a top 100 weekly ranking system and you could see which stations are doing great and then you could see and analyze are just the larger stations doing well or are smaller markets?
And it's a little bit of both because last week the top two stations were ABC7 in LA and KTLA, so market two big heavy hitters. But also in the top 10 was CBS6 Albany, so you're getting smaller markets to compete as well. That was interesting to find out. And then I did a DMA ranking, so then you could see by each DMA who's doing the best, who's putting out the most content.
And then the third thing I put is station group rankings. So I took all the different station groups and saw who is the top in views and all that, and TEGNA actually is the highest performer. They bring in the most content. They do a lot of YouTube shorts, and they have the most subscribers. So what they're doing is working, but if you go down the list, a lot of people aren't using YouTube efficiently or at all.
So getting those smaller markets to use YouTube and do it in a way where it doesn't cost any extra by using the content you already have.
Tim Hanlon: And why YouTube? Just because it's the gorilla of all things streaming video, and it's the easiest to essentially at least rebroadcast pieces that already ran on TV?
Mike VanZetta: Yeah, I can't describe it better than that. They are the top streaming platform, and people are watching it on TV. So it's standard TV, and it's a search engine, so people are looking for top news stories and all that. And local TV is still one of the best trusted sources out there. I know when I was on my own creating content whenever I was at an event and someone would say, "ABC 7's here, NBC 4 is here," and they get so excited and happy, and they're like, "You're here too, so seeing that out and seeing people going to this content because they are trusted sources, that's gonna go a long way. So that's why I think the future of the industry's okay, because it has that trust and people will go to it.
Tim Hanlon: But there's an undertone to this, right?
Yeah. And I'll squeeze it out of you somehow, right? In that, it seems like it comes from a place where local television news is trusted with decades of experience yet we also described earlier how things 10, 20 years ago were already starting to change, right?
The question is why is it important to you, and I suspect that this is the beginning of a journey that maybe is more comprehensive, but why is it important maybe to understand the data around YouTube. The content that stations are putting up there, the views of that content and that kind of stuff when the economics of the business kind of don't care, right?
'Cause it's still about ratings and local television and broadcast. So why, I guess I will cynically say in my own cheeky way, why should I care if I'm a station group owner about what's going on on my YouTube channel?
Mike VanZetta: I think it's a big thing. It's an extra revenue source using content you already have.
So I've been in newsrooms. You have a lot of content on the cutting room floor. You have raw interviews that you only use 30 seconds of in a piece. You have police body cam videos that you're not using. So this is a way to experiment and get more out of what you have. I don't think you should put extra money into YouTube or social media.
I think you need to use the content you have. I'm creating a tool where you could upload a newscast, and it'll cut it up for you, and then you download the files and then upload it to YouTube. So trying to get all this content out there because it is high-quality content, but it's only going in a newscast right now.
You need more eyeballs, and this is another place, all the number one streaming platforms, so that's where the eyeballs are at. You gotta catch their attention.
Tim Hanlon: So would you tell me then do you think that most stations are just mailing it in, so to speak, by basically taking things that have already been pre-produced, like a full newscast, and just then putting it on YouTube after the fact?
Maybe pieces, full pieces, that are taken out of the newscast, that kind of stuff. It seems like a lazy way just to kind of extend it when maybe the channel itself could be more thoughtfully programmed than just simply putting the repeated stuff that already ran on TV on a YouTube page.
Mike VanZetta: I agree with that. There's more ways to tell one story, and you could see that the newscast is your guide. So you get all these stories, and they're already approved, so they could go out everywhere. But you don't need to tell them the same way as a newscast. So if there is a police body cam, show the raw video.
Put a courtesy on it and put it up as soon as you can and see how those do really well on YouTube.
Tim Hanlon: So allow people to go deeper with various stories in addition to the prepackaged piece that's already run?
Mike VanZetta: Exactly. So you could see the nuts and bolts and then see it for yourself and have your own opinion of the story because it's just out there for you.
But the big thing is, are newspeople okay with having a body cam do much better views than the package. So that is a mindset change that needs to happen. Whatever it takes for the station to succeed, sometimes it is just a soundbite, sometimes it's a package. So you gotta think that way too.
Tim Hanlon: But I think, actually from a news production perspective, right? And a, quote-unquote, "ratings and ad revenue generating perspective." It sounds like that's the landmine. It's like we don't want this to be too successful. So to me that sounds like there needs to be a more holistic pivot, shall we say, to what the local news proposition is, and frankly, what a, quote-unquote, "station is." And almost maybe a bit of fear that perhaps, I don't know. How do you go from, "Okay, we show up, we put our stuff there, it's a great promotional tool. Hopefully it'll generate better ratings for us and more consistency with our brand and all that stuff," to something maybe more organic and maybe contributive to the overall business proposition that may not be about the linear television thing?
Mike VanZetta: Yeah, and I think that's a big thing. You get something that the data says it does very well, but the news director doesn't agree with that, and they've been there for 25 years. And then now you're gonna tell a news director that the data is saying something different and you should follow that and not them?
So that is the big mindset change that needs to happen because if something is working, you wouldn't stop doing it. So something isn't working with TV right now because there are a lot of cuts because of not enough revenue coming in or whatever, or changing the style so you need to think differently.
So I think the big thing newsrooms need to do is bring in the data, understand all aspects of the data and see what is doing well, what's not. And I think then that could open things. And be open to experimentation. Some people, saying something failed, that's gonna take an ego hit on you, but that's okay.
It's experimentation. Do 25, 30 videos on YouTube. Some are not gonna do that great, and that's okay. That doesn't mean anything negative on you.
Tim Hanlon: So okay, I think some of the response to that will be we have our own apps and/or we have our own FAST channel or FAST channels, so to speak.
I guess the question in there is number one, is that a good enough response? And I can understand it, right? Because you want people to be in your own monetizable ecosystem and YouTube is not that. But number two, is that also an area or areas that you wanna maybe expand this measurement and oversight thing that you're doing just on YouTube right now?
Mike VanZetta: Yes, absolutely. I think the key is using the content you already have everywhere. So if it is FAST, change the experience of FAST. In the app, use more vertical videos that you already have with sound bites and all that. Put all that stuff up. I would put all my content everywhere because it's then gonna make money for you no matter what.
So why leave all this content in one platform when you can make more money and increase revenue in other places? But I wouldn't say one is better than the other at all. I would go for all of it.
Tim Hanlon: So what's your goal then? Is your goal to expand your digital video measurement and/or I don't call it ratings per se, but performance ecosystem to enable local stations to have a more 360 view of where their stuff is running, how it's running, and how it's doing.
Mike VanZetta: Yes. I want people to understand data, so if I could help them by saying, "This is how you can move forward," because I started when I was 20 years old in TV. I love it. It's great. I don't wanna see it change. So if there's a way to increase revenue, they should take advantage of it without increasing costs.
Talking to stations, talking to station groups and all that, that's my goal, to help them out.
Tim Hanlon: Are there stations or groups or markets or entities or other things out there that you see that are surprising you positively and/or maybe you worry about on the negative side from what you've derived data-wise so far?
Is this still just the beginning of the journey?
Mike VanZetta: I think a lot of it is the beginning, but what I've seen early on is TEGNA with their shorts. So I think they're doing something automated. I don't know for sure, so I can't say it. But they are bringing a lot of content in, and they're number one because of it.
They're doing a lot of YouTube shorts. I would do more long form if they can because that increases more revenue than shorts. But seeing them really commit to YouTube, that is very promising. And then seeing, I'm not gonna single out any station groups, but for the negative side it's just getting on the horse, trying out, experimenting, getting on YouTube because the top 10 station groups are O&Os in the big markets.
So you have these smaller station groups that can do well, but they need to just commit and do it in a way where it doesn't take away from anything else they're creating.
Tim Hanlon: All right. So what's next for the PiZetta Media or the PiZetta News Tracker? And where can people find it and/or potentially participate or co-collaborate, et cetera, with you?
Mike VanZetta: Yeah, so pizettanewstracker.com. I want people to open it up every morning and see what's working and what's not, and what they could do to help their company. And then just email me, mike@pizettamedia.com, and let's talk and try to change the industry.
Tim Hanlon: And last question, what do you think the local television news proposition looks like in the next couple of years?
It does seem to me like there's some sorting going on. Despite the aggregation and the M&A and all that kind of stuff, there does seem to be some element of station management and news production that is evolving and others that are lagging. That's my perception. Where do you see local television news going in the next few years? Is it gonna be more digitally centric or is that too hard to do given that linear TV still pays the majority of the bills?
Mike VanZetta: Yes. Linear is, like you said earlier, the gorilla.
That is making the money especially this year with political advertising, that's where advertising is going to. So don't mess with that. But what you can do is try to get these other platforms to help your brand and help increase revenue a little bit at least so you're everywhere.
I think the content is the key and getting it to other places. So it's not gonna be 5:00 p.m. viewing all the time, but you could get that same story out everywhere, and no matter where someone is they could watch it.
Tim Hanlon: Do you ever see local broadcasters changing their business model enough where they recognize that the local broadcast news linear proposition is only one of their revenue streams and products and services out there, and maybe not the majority going forward?
Or is that too much to ask people to change their mindset about?
Mike VanZetta: It's gonna be tough to change their mindset, but when you're seeing all these cuts happen, you gotta think "What can I do differently?" Or the last person to survive is gonna be the news director, so you're not gonna have anyone else.
So you do have to think differently. And if the story I already created could go to other platforms, I'm not spending any extra money, I'm just getting this stuff out there, I think you gotta think like that to help the industry.
Tim Hanlon: All right. My thanks to Mike. The site that one must check out. You heard it before, and here it is again. It's pizettanewstracker.com. I'll spell it for you. P-I-Z-E-T-T-A newstracker, pizettanewstracker, all one word, .com. And again, it's an amazing assemblage of data, statistics. You can see the actual clips, the sources, rank them by groups or DMA, by station, by length of content.
All kinds of stuff that will fascinate you to no end, and perhaps stir you in your local newsroom or your station group conference room to understand stuff a little bit more elegantly about what's going on out there, what maybe you could be doing better. Apply it to your FAST channels and all that kind of stuff.
Again, it's pizettanewstracker.com. And you can also reach out to Mike directly if you wanna chat about how to maybe partner with him on what he's trying to do with this site going forward, and his email address, as mentioned earlier, is mike@pizettamedia.com.
All right, our thanks to the good folks at TVREV for allowing us to do this again this week, as always.That's Melissa Hourigan and Jessika Walsten and Jason Damata and Mike Gasbara, the great crew there at TVREV, without whom we could not do this show. I think that's what I'm trying to say. Thanks to Jerry Payne for his audio excellence this week, and our friends over at Madhive for their financial backing of said show, and thank you for listening.
Tell your friends and appreciate it. We'll see you next week here In the Vicinity.
